Palin: Cynical political bullshit nomination?
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Boy oh boy, do I love it when talking-head types get caught off guard. I mean, we all know they're humans, with opinions that aren't always sanitary and diplomatic, but it's not often you get to hear one of 'em say swear words…
I wonder who thought it'd be funny to leak this "off camera" video clip?
…I guess Sarah Palin is just proving to be a particularly "inspirational" figure to the political pundit community? Continue reading for the transcript:
TRANSCRIPT (after the camera "shuts off"):
Mike Murphy, former McCain advisor: Um, you know, because I come out of the blue swing state governor work. Engler, Whitman, Thompson, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush. And these guys, this is all like how you want to (inaudible) this race. You know, just run it up. And it's not gonna work.
Peggy Noonan, former Reagan speechwriter: It's over.
Murphy: Still, McCain can give a version of the Lieberman speech to do himself some good.
NBC's Chuck Todd: Don't you think the Palin pick was insulting to Kay Bailey Hutchinson, too (inaudible)
Noonan: I saw Kay this morning.
Murphy: They're all bummed out.
Todd: I mean, is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?
Noonan: The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political bullshit about narratives and (inaudible) the picture.
Murphy: I totally agree.
Noonan: Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.
Murphy: You know what's really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is "no cynicism" and this is…
Todd: It's cynical, and as you called it, gimmicky.
Yep. I watched her speech in that church today, telling people about "doing God's duty" and getting that oil pipeline built. Aren't people getting tired of that bullshit rhetoric? "God's duty". Just like God appointed Ol' Dubya and told him to go to Iraq. It's like we live in times of Zeus and Apollo, follow the will of the god's type shit, but now there's only one God and the bastard hates intelligence.
3rd September 2008 at 7:42 pm | permalink |She’s hot though ;) I remember during the Bill Clinton campaign, people were asked why they voted for him. Answers: “He’s goodlookin’!” Hehehehehe, I guess that’s one reason to vote at all ;)
4th September 2008 at 12:40 am | permalink |@bill - Back in 2000 I worked with a guy who voted for Bush because he said he'd rather look at Laura Bush for 4 years than Tipper Gore.
4th September 2008 at 5:33 am | permalink |Say no to john dubya mcbush and republican barbie.
4th September 2008 at 6:41 am | permalink |It's hard being 21 and listening to older folks talk about how attractive Palin is at times haha.
4th September 2008 at 9:32 am | permalink |I like when they are off camera how they tell you what they really think in human terms.
4th September 2008 at 1:05 pm | permalink |I don't think trashing Palin because she's inexperienced is meaningful. Dick Cheney and George Bush were experienced, and look how that turned out. I think they shouldn't trash Palin because of her record. (see http://www.alternet.org/election08/97350/ )
Not that it matters, though, because the election will be RIGGED.
4th September 2008 at 1:39 pm | permalink |@Kavan - "Not that it matters, though, because the election will be RIGGED."
So who's the winner? Any odds?
4th September 2008 at 3:55 pm | permalink |@Rick
Exxon.
4th September 2008 at 4:31 pm | permalink |@AC: "Aren't people getting tired of that bullshit rhetoric? 'God's duty'."
Not the Republican right-wing, apparently. That who she's there to court … McCain is considered dubious on moral issues (which is very odd, considering he's always been anti-abortion, and pro-religion … just not necessarily pro-far-right-wing-lunatic-religion), and she's all about it (except that she's never done anything of substance to advance any of those causes while she was in office).
OK, frankly it makes very little sense to me either. But like Bill Maher said, it's a huge insult to disenfranchised hardcore Hillary supporters: "Hey, she's the COMPLETE POLAR OPPOSITE of Hillary on every possible substantive issue, BUT she's got OVARIES! That's good enough to get your vote, right?"
@bill: "She’s hot though ;)"
Frankly, I can think of a couple of porn stars who are a lot hotter, and who I'd MUCH rather see in the White House. ;-) But that wouldn't fly … beauty queens are so much more wholesome.
@DavidGX: "Say no to john dubya mcbush and republican barbie."
Yeah, I'm thinking I need to make some VP Barbie bumperstickers … or something along those lines.
@Larry: "I like when they are off camera how they tell you what they really think in human terms."
If nothing else, it proves they actually DO think in human terms. lol
@Kavan Wolfe: "I don't think trashing Palin because she's inexperienced is meaningful."
They actually didn't say anything about "experience" … they said "is she the most qualified," and she most assuredly isn't. Hell the "makes a sheet of tissue paper look substantive" speech she gave yesterday pretty much proves that.
@Rick: "So who's the winner? Any odds?"
4th September 2008 at 8:23 pm | permalink |To elaborate on David's comment a bit: Follow the Money … no matter which candidate wins, that'll tell you who really won. heh
@alpha - "To elaborate on David's comment a bit: Follow the Money … no matter which candidate wins, that'll tell you who really won. heh"
Yeah, that's my take. That's why I'm trying to drum up a little action. Gambling is about the only way I could get interested in this dog and pony show.
5th September 2008 at 1:55 am | permalink |@AC - "It's hard being 21 and listening to older folks talk about how attractive Palin is at times haha."
Give the chance, I bet you'd hit it:)
5th September 2008 at 2:10 am | permalink |Sarah Palin has taken the USA by storm. Regardless of her politics, experience, and religion, the American voter almost always goes for style over substence,,EXCEPT when the candidate is really a risky unknown,weakling, or perceived radical. It looks like America loves Sarah, (I thought her speech was superb), and B. Hussein Obama went with tired old Dusty Joe (the plagurizer) Biden. The perception is McCain and Palin really look like the change America wants. The left wing of the Democratic party nominated BO, and now they have to live with the fact that America just aint gonna vote this unknown radical "community organizer" into office. I guess it felt good when the lefties voted for Barry, now, they have to drink the Dukakis Kool-aid. Sorry for the bad news. This election is over.
5th September 2008 at 12:34 pm | permalink |pedro (above)… you're an idiot. to use "community organizer" like it's an insult?!? ugh!
anyway, for all those who like real evidence with their talking points… i'm compiling a definitive listing of McShame's lies, flip-flops and insanities. it's here.
oh, and pedro? this election IS over. all the responsible polling aggregates say obama wins by 70+ electoral votes. see you in november!
again: READ THE FULL LIST OF MCSAME'S BULLSHIT EXPRESS!
5th September 2008 at 1:07 pm | permalink |@Rick: Foreign policy is why I'm getting worked up over this election. The international community didn't hate the US Gov't NEARLY as much when Clinton was in office as they do now … fuck, they didn't hate our gov't as much when Bush I was in office!
We can't afford to continue our current jackasstic foreign policies, and McCain/Barbie will do exactly that.
pedro: Wrong. She didn't give a superb speech, she didn't even give a superb theatrical performance … she gave a reasonably good reading of a cleverly written speech with all the substance of a giant wad of cotton candy (Maybe that explains her hairdo?).
I was listening to the last half of the speech on NPR, and I could tell she was reading every fucking word of it … not even her jokes were ad-libbed. Then my sister told me about the TV footage shot from behind the podium, showing the teleprompter she was reading from.
@james: Thanks, great list! :-)
5th September 2008 at 1:43 pm | permalink |Again I will say, that the American voter almost always goes for perception over substance!(Clinton, Regean). Sarah Palin is just so cute and folksey, the American public (you know, those who cling to guns and religion and racism) will of course buy into it. And, seeing Barry Hussein Obama and Joe (foot-in-mouth) Biden together just look like what they actually are,, A Chicago machine rookie, and an old failed Democratic senator in the Harry Reid model. The picture of a true American war hero and a cute new American Mom, vs, the same old tired leftists will win every time!
5th September 2008 at 2:06 pm | permalink |P.S. It is so cool, we get CNN (in English) here in Peru now.
Pedro, better check your Kool-aid. Someone has put something really potent in it (extasy?)to suggest that amerika loves anything like Palin. She is a lunatic right wing fundie that cannot even manage her family, let alone a village, state or cuntry. Some kind of example she and her spread-leg daughter set. I have pets that are more responsible at reproduction than those animals. Sarah Palin keeps reproducing until (Fucking Big Surprise!) she bears a mutant fucking brain dead mongoloid. It is a well known fact that reproduction that late in life really increases the odds of this mutation. And her fucked up little bitch daughter, getting knocked up while still in high school? Sure, I'd want my daughters to look up to her! WTF Pedro, pull your head out of your ass. But let us know ahead of time. I'll need ear protection against the sucking sound it will make!
5th September 2008 at 2:15 pm | permalink |@ alphabitch: Q. "Cynical bullshit nomination"? A. Yes.
@ pedro: Here's how much I love Sarah Palin.
5th September 2008 at 2:27 pm | permalink |Kavan, not to pile on, but the issue IS qualification, not experience. Obama has taught Constitutional Law. Dubya and Palin MIGHT be able to spell it correctly with the assistance of a teleprompter (see Palin's speech and any of Dubya's). But they couldn't begin to tell you about it or why it is the one thing about amerika that is worth saving. And as for Cheney, I do believe he would shrivel up like a vampire if he ever saw it.
5th September 2008 at 3:16 pm | permalink |Kavan: Oh yes, McSame. Almost forgot about him. He probably has forgotten what is the Constitution. Senility is a bitch.
5th September 2008 at 3:17 pm | permalink |Add in the fact that Palin thinks the Founding Fathers wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, the "under God" part and all. How fucking stoopid is this lady?
5th September 2008 at 3:19 pm | permalink |So what if Sarah thinks George Washington wrote God Bless America… let's take this to it's logical conclusion… Spiro Agnew, Walter Mondale, Dan Quayle. Al Gore (barf), Dick Cheney… C'mon,,,, Sarah is the sexiest VP you will ever have! Get used to it!!!!
5th September 2008 at 3:38 pm | permalink |pedro, american t.v. is no way to learn about america…
5th September 2008 at 5:00 pm | permalink |@pedro: Bill Clinton had a metric fuck-ton more substance than Sarah Palin, for one thing.
For another thing, getting thrown in a POW camp for years while other men were out fighting a war makes a killer biography and an even better made-for-TV movie, but it does NOT a "war hero" make by any stretch of the imagination.
For a third thing, Al Gore was a metric fuck-ton better a VP than anyone else on your list.
For the fourth thing, the fact that Sarah Palin knows so FUCKING little about her country that she doesn't know the history of the Pledge of Allegiance, or the origin of the reference to God therein, is but ONE proof of her utter lack of qualification to lead this nation.
And for one last thing, "sexiest" shouldn't appear any-fucking-where in any fucking list of Vice Presidential qualifications. This is the Executive Branch of a major world power's government, not America's Next Top Model, for fuck's sake.
5th September 2008 at 5:54 pm | permalink |WooHoo! Alphabitch, I wish you'd run for some office. More, I wish I could you meet you. You are AWESOME! Enough of this shit. Here is where I learned about some of Sarah's better qualities: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/politics/animal/main4414049.shtml
5th September 2008 at 7:10 pm | permalink |Oooh, wow, CNN. Cos they're a thoroughly reliable and reputable source for all of your political commentary.
For fuck's sake, internationally they're seen as pretty competitive with Faux in the 'fair and balanced' stakes.
5th September 2008 at 7:46 pm | permalink |@Dr. Atomix: Weirdness, I can't see why that comment would have ended up in my spam filter … anyhoo, it's rescued now. :-)
So, it's funny … I went out for a friend's birthday last night, and I put my hair up and put on makeup and wore a nice jacket and fancy tank top … and THREE FUCKING PEOPLE IN THREE DIFFERENT BARS said I looked like Sarah Palin. *sigh* The third guy actually thought I WAS fucking Sarah Palin. So, y'know, maybe I DO have what it takes? *gag* Apparently, for a woman, all it takes is a snippy sense of humor, styled hair, and the ability to read out loud and smile at the same time? Fucking hell. I could even write my own speeches … but wait, people might find that intimidating or something.
@grimbles: Really? Damn, I didn't think they were THAT bad. You just gotta keep the assumption in mind that they're pandering to their advertisers, and therefore you have to filter the money interests out of everything they say. ;-)
6th September 2008 at 7:16 pm | permalink |@ab: "You just gotta keep the assumption in mind that they're pandering to their advertisers, and therefore you have to filter the money interests out of everything they say." Which network are you talking about again? =p
6th September 2008 at 8:15 pm | permalink |Being in London, the disturbing thing I've noticed is that the local rags are all a-twitter about Sarah Palin. She was on the front page of the Saturday issue of The Times. The coverage mostly runs the gamut, but it falls out pretty much like this:
Sarah Palin is being treated like a rock star in America. Americans are a bunch of stupid, ADD-afflicted twats, and any shiny, flashy thing will distract them. So even though Palin is a political lightweight, incapable of offering substance on any critical issue, and even though she stretches the truth a bit (Bridge to Nowhere, governor's plane on eBay, etc.), Americans will vote for her like crazy because she's a (pretty) shiny, flashy thing.
Fuck all.
Gawd, the Brits are dumber than I thought. Cheerio, guv'na.
7th September 2008 at 12:01 pm | permalink |@grimbles: Well, pretty much all of 'em, no? ;-)
@Becca: Well fuck, after Bush got in the White House TWICE, you can't blame the int'l community for thinking we're a bunch of ADD-afflicted twats who'll vote more on appearances than substance, can you?
7th September 2008 at 1:35 pm | permalink |@Becca - I'm embarrassed, but it sounds like the Brits hit the nail on the fuckin head to me.
7th September 2008 at 3:27 pm | permalink |OK, OK, take a deep breath, take a chill pill. puh-leeze. Now it is so obvious Sarah has propelled Johnny Hero McCain into the White House, let us concentrate our energy beyond this failed shell (Obama) and focus on 2012!
9th September 2008 at 11:07 am | permalink |Oh wait! so, Sarah will win in 2012 and again in 2016… so let's look ahead to 2016, please. And, Remember, let us NOT nominate an inexpiercenced, radical, racist, leftist Socialist with a Muslim background and Muslim middle name. please?
@Third World: Dear god, I really hope you're joking.
It is ANYTHING but obvious that McCain is going to win, when you actually look at polling data. But then, maybe it's just easier to make assumptions based on superficial media coverage than it is to actually look for information to back your assumptions up?
9th September 2008 at 1:53 pm | permalink |You say socialist like it's a bad thing… Obviously one of those people without the brain capacity to understand there's a difference between socialism and Stalinism.
9th September 2008 at 7:22 pm | permalink |He likely doesn't know what socialism is or what socialists actually stand for. But it's a popular thing to hate for right-wingers so.. yeah.
10th September 2008 at 4:44 am | permalink |Also, where may I ask, the fuck are the MSM on sarah palin? Where? I should be able to turn on cnn/msnbc and, literally, see attack dogs gnawing on her.
Lie after lie, it's unbelievable that she's not being hit harder for them. Some of the most blatant lying I've EVER seen and it's getting so little coverage.
Bah.
10th September 2008 at 4:54 am | permalink |Yeah, Third World is an idiot but Socialism is a terrible thing.
10th September 2008 at 10:02 am | permalink |Obama is far from being a socialist.
And before you say that I don't know what I'm talking about, in my college days I read a lot of socialist literature, from the classics, marx, lenin, rosa louxembourg to even marcuse.
It's hard to find anything good there, even in Marx who is by far the best among them.
I laughed at Third World because it was obvious to me that this person was joking and just trying to provoke a more interesting discussion.
10th September 2008 at 11:35 am | permalink |As to Socialism, of course, it is like Democracy in that it comes in many forms, but, coming from a country SURROUNDED by Socialist countries, I have to agree it is not good. At its very least it always in some form will rob an individual of wealth, and to a degree, freedom. At its worst (ie Nazi germany (nationalist Socialist party) and Soviet Russia, Cuba, etc, it robs the individual of all identity.
Of course, Obama is a socialist! He recently proposed to send every American citizen $1000, confiscated from the oil companies!!! That is Hugo Chavez type Socialism. There are many more examples.
But, all this seems moot now. It appears that all the Greek temple sets, faux presidential seals and fawning MSM coverage in the world are not going to help his campaign.
I know what he meant with his "Pig" comment. Im not sure he was really calling Sexy Sarah a hog. But, the evidence that the leftist putsch is crumbling, Joey The plagurizer Obiden yesterday asked his "good friend" who is wheelchair bound to stand up and take a bow! WTF??
@grimbles: "…there's a difference between socialism and Stalinism."
Or, for that matter, the difference between socialism and communism.
@DavidGX: "…it's a popular thing to hate for right-wingers"
Yup. Just like my right to choose whether or not I want to have a baby, or those eeeeevil Mooslims (who are all terrorists), or people who think the Bible is a crock of shit fairy tale, or … so, yeah. ;-)
@DavidGX: "Also, where may I ask, the fuck are the MSM on sarah palin? Where?"
More to the point, where is this famed "Liberal Media" we always hear about, who're supposed to be viciously slandering her?
@Bruno: "Yeah, Third World is an idiot but Socialism is a terrible thing."
A strictly 100% socialist economic system? Yes. But if you want to take a broader view of it, social services are "socialist" … they take tax money, and use it to provide things like food stamps and (in some cases) medical care to people who can't afford it. And I don't know about you, but I don't think that's a terrible thing.
That's what people are talking about when they call Obama a socialist: He's in favor of a national health care system. Which is, apparently, a terrible, evil way to spend our tax dollars. As opposed to, say, spending billions on killing brown people around the world who have the nerve to think they should be able to run their own countries in ways we don't approve of.
@pedro: "I laughed at Third World because it was obvious to me that this person was joking"
See, I would almost say "obvious," except that I've met a LOT of Americans for whom that level of political discourse is about the best they can come up with. ;-)
"…will rob an individual of wealth, and to a degree, freedom."
Ooookay. So, paying taxes to fund interstate highway maintenance is evil? Or how about paying taxes to support an unwinnable and dishonest "war"? Is it only evil socialism when the tax money is going to help poor people, or is it OK if it's helping poor people in another country, because we can call it "international aid" instead of "welfare"? Or are ALL forms of taxation equally evil? Because personally, I'd much rather see the tax money we're spending in Iraq actually go towards doing good for someone, somewhere.
"He recently proposed to send every American citizen $1000, confiscated from the oil companies!!!"
10th September 2008 at 12:55 pm | permalink |And Sarah Palin is sending $1200 to every Alaskan citizen, "confiscated" from the oil companies. I guess now she's an evil socialist too?
"At its worst (ie Nazi germany (nationalist Socialist party) and Soviet Russia, Cuba, etc, it robs the individual of all identity."
Uh-huh. Because capitalism at its worst is *awesome*. No face-less McWorkers in the USofA, no-siree-bob. China's all about capitalism now, too. They're awesome. Almost as good on human rights as the US.
My point? Saying "omg, *insert politcal system here* is terrible because of *insert 'bad' country here*" is really fucking stupid. "Bad County A" is/was bad because of the fucking psycho(s) in charge. Socialism is economic policy. The bad things about Nazi Germany, the USSR, China, that's not economics (mostly), it's on the libertarian (social, not neo-) v authoritarian scale where those countries were fucked up. The traditional left/right spectrum is fine for discussions of economics only, but for anything beyond that you need another axis. And it's that other axis that provides most of the fucking scary shit in politics - wiretapping, arbitrary detention, extrajudicial sanctions, etc.
Aside from anything else, Obama's still in the right, authoritarian quadrant, along with most of the US' politicians. Hitler and Stalin, different quadrants, centre-right and far left respectively, both way up near the authoritarian end of the social scale. Y'know who else is further up that scale than Obama? McCain.
Granted, not as far up there as Mitt Romney *shudder*
And ab already mentioned this, but socialism is what gets you roads to drive on without having to pay a toll each time, and public parks, and public libraries. Oh, and a police force that (might) show up without checking your credit first. Fire department that doesn't watch your house burn while you fumble for your check book. Helping people (eventually) whose homes are destroyed in a natural disaster. Schools that will teach anyone, even if their parents can't afford private tuition. Free clinics. All those things are socialism in action. If you think those things are bad, you're a fuck. No, really. Socialism (not its perversions throughout history by powerhungry idiots) is about not being a selfish dick, and the government stepping in to stop people from being selfish dicks, or taking away some of their ability to do so. You don't like socialism you're either ignorant, stupid, or a selfish fuck. First two, get a clue, latter, die in a fire.
Have a nice day =D
11th September 2008 at 2:50 am | permalink |@grimbles: I'd ask to marry you, but I don't want to get married again. ;-)
11th September 2008 at 3:00 am | permalink |Grimbles: Socialism is about the loss of individuality, is forcing people to do what is considered best for society ( or the state).
11th September 2008 at 5:44 am | permalink |It has the best intentions ( that's why I have socialist friends but no fascist friends, socialists are usually good hearted people) but it does not work and never will.
State provided health care is not socialism. In the end we have to take into account our values ( more or less income equality, opportunity, and freedom) with the reality.
The reality is that socialist systems are good only in socializing poverty and creating a authoritarian state. Socialism and democracy are incompatible, what you can have is a capitalist system were the state intervenes to guarantee a more fair distribution of opportunities, income, while keeping individual freedom.
@Bruno, as I live in a country that's often called a social democracy, I notice that you think socialism and democracy are incompatible. Also, I'd rather accuse fascism, not socialism, for the loss of individuality in favour of the society (or the nation). Furthermore, a capitalist system where the state intervenes to guarantee more fair distribution of income doesn't sound at all capitalist to me.
Do you use the word socialism to describe Marx' half-way point to communism? Then, state provided health care would be socialism. Socialism wants the state to provide everything, why not health care?
@grimbles: While I don't mind your defintion of socialism, it has quite a bit less of an ideological foundation than what history usually shows. And, while you guys are more awesome no doubt, Marx and Mao and their ilk have had a teensy bigger effect on the world, so I'm going with their definition. They would want all the things you said and then some, like having all Alaskan oil drilling being done by federally owned companies. Like Halliburton being owned by the government, and -not- the other way around.
In total, national health care is part of socialism. Barack Obama supports national health care. That doesn't mean Barack Obama is a socialist. You see, socialists and Barack Obama got their idea as a result of the same human sentiment: "Caring about other people".
I, for one, can't fault anyone for that.
11th September 2008 at 11:09 am | permalink |@Secateaur:
I'm pragmatic and not dogmatic. I am against the state running everything because it does not work, and that's beyond doubt imo. The health care system is very different from other industries and a bigger government intervention is needed imo, if it should be state provided or regulated is a valid discussion and I'm not sure what's the best option.
Fascism is lot closer to communism than it is to democratic captalism.
11th September 2008 at 12:11 pm | permalink |Militarism, excess nationalism , disrespect for individual rights are all characteristics of socialist and fascist societies.
Capitalism does not assumes total de-regulation and no government intervention. Most classical economists and today ( liberal and conservatives) economists favor some types of state interventions, but they say we have to take into account the side effects.
Having good intentions is important, but it's not enough. It has to work on real life.
@Bruno: Socialism involves the loss of money, and if money=individuality … well, I'd say that's a BIG fucking problem. Not the socialism part, the thinking you need money to have individuality part.
@Secateur: As it's taught in Political Science studies, socialism is an economic system, communism is a political system … and the "communist socialism" seen in the USSR and China is/was more of a totalitarian oligarchy than anything resembling either communism OR socialism.
As soon as you have an elite little "party" running the government (ie. an oligarchy), you've left the ideals of communism in the dust … and as soon as an elite little group is the decision-making body for how to distribute tax money, you've left the ideals of socialism in the dust with it … and as soon as that elite little group starts telling people how to think, speak and act in their daily lives, you have totalitarianism.
11th September 2008 at 1:15 pm | permalink |Pick any "ism" you want, once it's been corrupted the average person is fucked.
11th September 2008 at 3:43 pm | permalink |@Rick: Yup, true enough … I mean, it's not like unfettered capitalism was working great during the last turn of the century either. If folks think big companies are screwing the little man now, look back in history: unfair monopoly practices (ie. Standard Oil), workplace safety (ie. the Triangle Shirtwaist fire), child labor issues, etc., etc. We're getting royally screwed economically, sure, but at least there's not much risk of the average factory worker being 8 years old, or dying in a piece of machinery with no available safety guards.
And how were all those improvements made? Government intervention. Laissez faire, my ass.
And the great, sainted Democracy? Yeah, right … watch the average, poorly-educated American dign through the big money spin that fills the mainstream news media. That's a damn well informed electorate we gots ourselves there, yessiree! (To say nothing of the fact that we're a republic, not a flippin' democracy in the first place …)
11th September 2008 at 4:32 pm | permalink |"Militarism, excess nationalism , disrespect for individual rights"
…That sounds like the US, honestly.
Anyway, I'm not a proponent of pure socialism. Pure *anything* just isn't workable, which is why we have blended systems. It's why we have an politico-economic scale rather than just 'commie' and 'defenders of the free world'.
Free health-care is socialist. You might not want to admit it, because people seem to have this braindead hangover from the cold war that anything socialist is bad. You take money from those who can afford it, and provide services to those who can't. That is socialism. A pure capitalist society is one where it's every man woman and child for themselves. It's market forces and nothing else. A pure socialist society is one where everything is owned by and operated by the government. Both of those options are bad. Which is why pretty much everywhere in the world we have a blending of the two, where the government intervenes to prevent abuses by wealthy individuals - to varying degrees of success. Any public service provided through taxation is inherently socialist.
"Capitalism does not assumes total de-regulation and no government intervention." That's exactly what capitalism is, in it's purest form. Anything that's not like that is a hybrid. I think the fact that you're making such blatantly incorrect statements says a lot about your general understanding of economic theory.
"The reality is that socialist systems are good only in socializing poverty and creating a authoritarian state"
Not really. What creates wide-spread poverty and authoritarianism is… authoritarian abuse of that power. And exactly the same abuses are possible on the other side of the spectrum, it's just private individuals exercising excessive power, rather than supposed public servants.
"what you can have is a capitalist system were the state intervenes to guarantee a more fair distribution of opportunities, income, while keeping individual freedom."
One, fair is a subjective term. Two, any redistribution of wealth by the government is socialist. Thus, that aforementioned system is a hybrid of both capitalist and socialist. It's the socialist bits that stop it from being completely fucked up.
@ab: Hmm, I've seen you get plenty of marriage proposals here… is this the first time you done the (almost) proposing?
11th September 2008 at 6:28 pm | permalink |Ah, a relationship where the "that facial tick is because s/he just said something so ignorant" occurrences were minimal… =p
@grimbles: you seem to be a nice person, but go read some books.
11th September 2008 at 7:18 pm | permalink |Read Adam Smith , for example, and find a sentence were he says that the state should never intervene in the economy.
Find a graduate economics book that says that the state should never intervene in the economy.
Sarah Palin said in an interview that she’s willing to go to war against Russia should Georgia be member of Nato. Is she fuckin’ crazy? War against RUSSIA? Does she want to destroy earth?
12th September 2008 at 1:30 am | permalink |